Turbojugend - Quo vadis?

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Re: Turbojugend - Quo vadis?

New postby Reverend_Rauchzart on Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:45 pm

@balthasar:

:smt023
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Re: Turbojugend - Quo vadis?

New postby reverend of the almighty on Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:13 am

Balthazar-

I am pleased that you are a part of this discussion. You and I have not met, and I have apologized for a bad joke, and I can understand that people would take that seriously. There are times when communication can get broken down, and I apologize again. I would never want my information stolen (It has, and I am battling that in court right now), therefore I wouldn't want anyone else's.

My point is the point that has come up again and again. We need solidarity and infrastructure. Can we please find a way to all work together to do that?

What can each of us do to strengthen the Turbojugend, and foster growth of the organization? This is more a call to everyone to stand up and help out, rather than some takeover and 'dethroning.' I believe that we need strong leadership that can communicate well between everyone. Someone, or a group of people, who can get something done and work towards bettering the organization. My wife put it best of Facebook when she stated that I never had this intention. I don't. I don't want to have some leadership status thrust at me and guide the way that each chapter moves. That is up to the individual Presidents. What I do believe is that El Presidente has been exhausted for some time, as he said to me personally. My only goal was to move this forward, so that we can all have an excited and energetic Turbojugend.

If at any point my discussions or intentions come under question, I am happy to address them to anyone. I have done quite a bit of that today, and I would enjoy knowing how people think that this whole organization can move forward.
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Re: Turbojugend - Quo vadis?

New postby Chief Blitzkrieg Pauli on Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:34 am

Fidel.Castro wrote:I can´t understand the overreaction of TJ St. Pauli.
The last time Turbojugend.net rarely had a update (I think the last sexy sailor was August 2011).
New Years Day 2010 and 2011 many Jugendliche were in HH to fix the date of the WTJD. Any interest of the old guard ? No !
The organization of the WTJD should be a special matter of concern of the mother of all Jugenden. What activities did you start ? I guess none.
What about the Kutten ? Waiting this long time is not acceptable anymore. We had to bootleg in the past but don´t want to bootleg anymore.

Thanks for all the efforts in the past. You did a very well job. But things have to go forward.

Hacking the website seriously was a bad joke. But the other activities of the moonshiners aren´t illegal. There isn´t any spirit violated. Instead for me the spirit of TJ is held up. These are the people I meet while travelling and I´m interested in what they are saying.


:smt023 WORD!
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Re: Turbojugend - Quo vadis?

New postby mark the dark on Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:19 am

good to see the board is used again for discussion, makes me believe paying for it is not totally waste of money... :lol:
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Re: Turbojugend - Quo vadis?

New postby Balthasar Katharsis on Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:00 pm

mark the dark wrote:good to see the board is used again for discussion, makes me believe paying for it is not totally waste of money... :lol:


We should have founded TJ Patrons a while ago ;-) You paying for the board, me paying for TJ.NET.
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Re: Turbojugend - Quo vadis?

New postby Balthasar Katharsis on Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:13 pm

reverend of the almighty wrote:Balthazar-

You and I have not met, and I have apologized for a bad joke, and I can understand that people would take that seriously.

What can each of us do to strengthen the Turbojugend, and foster growth of the organization? This is more a call to everyone to stand up and help out, rather than some takeover and 'dethroning.' I believe that we need strong leadership that can communicate well between everyone.


Unfortunately, we have not met (despite being on the same contingent). Otherwise, this discussion would be easier and we might not have to face this dilemma. Let me just raise a few points (reflecting only my personal opinion):
  • You have indeed apologized to the community various times but have you apologized in person to El Presidente? Yes, he might have not responded to all your mails and he might have given the impression of someone not too interested in the current Jugend affairs, but let us all (and that includes the Deathpunk Moonshiners) not forget about the founding fathers of the Turbojugend.
  • Let me clarify that also in the Turbojugend there is an Old World and a New World. I have been, e.g., invited to Turbonegro's New York show (not by the band) and I declined due to other affairs. I am one of the persons who has watched the death cycle of the band too often and lost the burning desire in the Alpha Denim Recruits. Friends from the city that never sleeps were ecstatic and I was happy for them as they have reminded me about the good, old times (and yes: I am not too ignorant that now there will be their golden age of confusion).
  • That being said: The structure of the Turbojugend is complex. There are those that are now into it and cannot understand why certain chapters have lost their interest not realizing that these chapters have been active for quite some period and are still in Turbojugend due to the friends they have met. Turbojugend friendship happens in Old and New World beyond the internet and can be never reflected by websites. I rarely wear one of my jackets but I enjoy the friendship among the Turbojugend on a daily basis. Thus, the "cleansing" (by the way: a horrible word in the Old World) is a challenge I have vetoed against. Sometimes chapters disappear in silence and sometimes there is a resurrection (like seen various times for Turbonegro who have, e.g., lost Hank already twice).
  • According to the rules, Hank & El Presidente are the the ultimate authority in the Turbojugend. However, these rules have never been tables of the law. There has never been a strong leader. Turbojugend-related affairs have been collectively discussed among veterans and in various times it has been clear who to contact. Here, El Presidente has been an essential character as we relied not only on his wisdom but also on his skill to moderate discussions. He has done a great job here. The Turbojugend has been always chaotic but in case of problems (and there have been many!) there has been a lose bunch of veterans that have sorted out this problems.

I would recommend:
  • to ask El Presidente for a word.
  • to clearly separate between Turbonegro, the business (including the chapter jackets) and the Turbojugend. In my opinion, these aspects of the Turboverse need to be organized separately. This has been the case in the last years.
  • to discuss the future of the Turbojugend. There is no clear definition of the Turbojugend. For many chapters, Turbojugend is more than just Turbonegro's Navy.
  • to discuss the idea of a Turbojugend board that reflects its diversity and for sure not mainly the Zeitgeist.

I agree with you that now is the momentum to move the Turbojugend once more forward.
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Re: Turbojugend - Quo vadis?

New postby reverend of the almighty on Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:03 pm

Balthazar-

I will do as you suggest. I will email El P, and apologize for any insult that I may have caused.

There should not be an 'Old World' and 'New World' in this. This is about all of us, and that means that respect and honor are given across the board. I kept my nose low and played nicely for some time within this, but eventually, when I got heard is when I raised my voice, and others decided to act.

From what I understand, we have had many strong leaders in the past. Most of these are experienced members that deserve our respect due to their words and actions. I've been a part of this for a while now, and many of the younger members treat me with that respect. I give it openly to people like Mark theDark, Roy, Party Cowboy, Chris Jackson, Gary Yoxen, Big Al... let the list go on. Some of these people I have met, and some I have not. Whether I have met someone or not does not decide how much respect I give them though. Nor does it limit my contact. This is based off of personal decisions on my part, and should be chosen as such for every member of this Jugendnaut.

Other than that, I'd like to focus on the movement of creating a functional Mail Order, and the capability to move forward on a Turbojugend site that would function well for Deathpunk Tourism. Let us move forward, instead of backwards.
- TJ Low Places
- TJ Fort Collins
- TJ Selfdestructo
- TJ Satanika
- TJ Hammersmith Bastards
- TJ Scab Merchants
- TJ Moonshiners
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Re: Turbojugend - Quo vadis?

New postby The Grim Beaker on Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:52 am

mark the dark wrote:good to see the board is used again for discussion, makes me believe paying for it is not totally waste of money... :lol:

It should happen more often...especially in the context of these latest events
Can anyone fill me in to what all this is about? Clearly I'm missing something here...can't say I like what I reading though.....
Free your mind and your ass will follow - TJ Lancashire :slayer
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Re: Turbojugend - Quo vadis?

New postby Capt'n Action Jackson on Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:30 pm

unfortunate that feelings got hurt, but seems that no one really took moving forward seriously until said feelings got hurt. what is that old cliche (at least here state side) about breaking eggs to make omelets?
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Re: Turbojugend - Quo vadis?

New postby Paul von Rotten on Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:54 pm

Or at least have the common decency to give a man a reach around.
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